that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it alexander if i go to you first in london. government was supposed to be formed today they're postponing it is this. a indication of what's going to come where we don't have unity even here we have never had unity amongst the opposition leaders and that's been a serious problem they have never been able to agree which of them leads the opposition movement and to make matters worse we now know the two of the most important opposition leaders mrs kohl and mystic political have ruled themselves out ok i'd like to turn to our against amanda in brussels how do you see things playing out in kiev right now because we've seen is that the opposition is having a very hard time finding some kind of unity how in the world if they can't find unity during a crisis situation that we have right now how can they reach out to the east that is watching this with a very wary eye well i would agree that historically. the opposition parties in

ukraine have found it quite difficult to cooperate with each other but i still believe this time around we've seen a much greater degree of readiness to work together of course you could say the fact that they didn't agree this interim government it is would indicate divisions but i would also say that we need to be extremely careful in choosing the personalities who are going to be representative in this government because if we don't want a government that's filled with personalities from the past we need a new faces so i don't think we need to exaggerate the fact that it's taking a couple of extra days to put this government together ok dimitry it is a crisis situation here to become trees only weeks away from default and it looks like the western powers that are so gleeful about the illegal overthrow of this government are going to be able to cough up the money to keep this economy going because if it doesn't do that then it's. to be

a problem for everybody well first peter i would like to correct you these people are not their position anymore they are in power in kiev defacto at least a few people dollar to that they will be in power for the next few years because the e.u. and the united states very extremely weak in the recognize in their legitimacy all of these new leadership even though as you rightly said they deal between the un accord each additional was on they give us not on kind in power over to these people and it's it's a scandal that the three foreign ministers all of biggie you can trace france germany and poland they guaranteed the so-called deal which was not worth the paper that it was written on and none of these ministers this is an even greater scandal none of these ministers all of them appeared to be untroubled by this new development it looks like the e.u. there that this phase may pressure the i.m.f.

to give money to create in this time not to give money of course but to lend money before and it may stay on to quote each of the i.m.f. conditions were very tough. ukraine was supposed to hike the prices for electricity and for gas for the population it was also supposed to private ties most of the utilities so that they could be they could become profitable and that they could be sold to foreign company as we'll see if there i.m.f. will stick to the same conditions but i think that ukraine's bankruptcy is in no one's interest and i think these countries a grain it may become bankrupt if completely irresponsible people come to power running nothing and let me go to alexander here because i think that is you know one of the things i find very troublesome about everything that's being played out here is that very few people in the west doubt that have any equate questions.

legitimacy of what's going on in care of and i have a lot of concerns right there because you know you could say that there are maybe there was a liberal element in kiev that wanted to see a change fine but they're in bed with some pretty nasty people that have not have not been elected by anyone except for some violent rioters on them i don't indeed so can i just say one of the most dangerous and alarming of these people mr dimitri yarosh i saw today is actually angling to be made deputy prime minister in this interim government which would be a very alarming development indeed now on the question of legitimacy let's be absolutely clear that not only was the power sharing arrangement that dimitri was talking about not worth the paper that it was written on but what we have seen since friday has been an extraordinary colab of any kind of constitutional order mr yanik overture is removed from power without any process of impeachment.

laws have been passed out and for normal rate. by a parliament doing completely the opposite of what it was elected to do. and acting president has been appointed contrary to the provisions of the constitution and steps are being taken to outlaw or at least to prevent or restrict the use of russian which is also contrary to the constitution now to talk about legitimacy in this situation is to my mind extremely difficult this is not a legitimate situation it is a revolutionary situation in which the traditional political leaders the people we were talking about political yet say new york tymoshenko they are not in control the people who are in control in kiev are entirely different people very violent people. sometimes very stream people people with very alarming views but they're

the people at the moment who are in charge because they have the crowds and they have the guns ok i'm going to have to do think the european union should be in bed with some of these people from the right sector sloboda i mean anyone that takes any interest in what's going on in ukraine will find out that these are a very unsavory people with some very very violent in really backward looking ideas about politics while i think we have to remember how we got to this point in the first place and the reason why we're at this point and including this economic disaster in ukraine is because of the bad economic and political policies of the leadership of viktor yanukovych and all of those cronies that was surrounding him i mean he basically ran ukraine like a fifth them which was only beneficial to himself. i don't think i don't think anybody on this program would disagree with what you're saying but you're not answering my question well of course there is extremist elements within this group

of euromaidan protesters we know that but still the broader base of these protesters are still remain all remaining peaceful and calm i don't think you can define all of these people as wielding guns because that's simply not the case i mean if you go out into the streets of kiev today and we're not seeing violence all over the place but the expectations is from euro maidan protesters they want to see this new interim government when it's put in place temporary leadership on the promises that they've made on the original demands of the people so of course they are going to be that say a bit skeptical given the history of ukraine's political elite dimitry here in moscow i mean can you have a transition to any kind of form of democracy defined by washington or brussels when it's being ruled by a mob. well. peter i i would at the

same time agree and disagree with something that i'm on the sas on the wrong hand yes not all of the people in mind on where wielding guns in the same way in one nine hundred thirty three not all of the people who voted for hitler wanted to be exterminated not all of them wanted to invade russia or to become monsters of your . this is the problem you know maybe in a few days you will have less people will dingaan's right now there are all of these so-called self-defense units controlling kiev and these self-defense units organized people are in all the governor in the in the west of the of ukraine in the devolved they forced the former police officers to stand on their knees and to beg the crowd for forgiveness you can watch it on the internet and their so-called liberal. media in ukraine that like the western support that. they cherish these

images they say that this is the civilization this is democracy although it seems it looks a bit medieval to me the problem is that it's enough to read the programs of these people i mean read the program of jarosz he says that people who don't want to speak ukrainian should be expelled from ukraine he says that nuclear weapons should be brought back to ukraine ukraine should have nuclear status again these views of he is are shared by new book and we see shaking hands with catherine ashton and with victoria nuland and with other people from the e.u. in the united states i think that most terrible consequence of what happened in ukraine is that the united states and the u. disqualify themselves as saying to me geez after they failed to guarantee they dream and that was signed under their all spaces how can they be trusted in future . if there is any conflict in the former soviet union in russia or in belarus or in

armenia and there may be a lot more conflicts who will view the e.u. and the united states as arbiters a centimeter eous this is awful and i would say that coups are not a new thing in the former soviet union they have been happening since one thousand nine hundred one and even before but the problem was that before the united states in the you were never very quick in supporting coups ok he. was toppled in one thousand nine hundred one. you know will stop all the nazir by two hours later all was the united states and europe always took a somewhat detached attitude they've waited for a few days they never said that we're happy about what happened and here they guaranteed again i'm hungry again here folks we're going to what you're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine state with r.t. . the

comments which we hear from the leaders are ukrainian radicals they sound like ukrainian sellafield they say ok europe is not the europe which we are dreaming about because the family values on the mind of the christian values on the mind the gay marriages law and love song and so forth it sounds like european telly but only one can exist. as the. stories others through

a few posts and notes. it's changing the world. full picture. for us to to. look. i marinate join me on into impartial and financial reporting commentary contributed and much much. only on the bus and. revolutionary cio with the illegal overthrow of the democratically elected government in ukraine the country stands at the abyss politically economically and

even territorially strongly supported by the e.u. and washington the new rulers of my i don't perceive this ideological zealots can they reach out to all ukrainians or will they divide the country even more. you know you are you know you're. very. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the recent developments in ukraine.

ok madam let's go back to you in brussels there's an old saying if you you break it you own it and since the e.u. has been so. been involved in the recent events even i would call a coup illegal coup in care isn't it now responsible for what happens in care of right now being you know people talking about giving it loans and all of the i mean it's really quite interesting isn't it that you know the people of greece and cyprus probably find this really quite odd that the european union is so interested in involving itself in the affairs of ukraine well i don't find it odd whatsoever i mean ukraine has been for a long time a key part of the e.u. it's a very important state a transit state between russia. and the e.u. so i don't find it strange at all and of course what we've seen out in the streets of ukraine for the past three months has made it very clear that people on your own

maidan have been looking to europe looking at the west for support and assistance from the e.u. to help them democratize and modernize their country i think the e.u. actually has a responsibility to support the ukrainian people to increase security and stability on the european continent which is exactly what the e.u. was created for and i believe in fact the e.u. actually has been too slow in reacting to what happened and ukraine perhaps if they'd gone in earlier with a more robust policy we perhaps might not have seen so many deaths i think the e.u. is correct to try and help ukraine finance. really and this financial of thing amanda saying what how big of an event it now going to be rewarded her are good then they have been ok my goodness ok what business is it of the european union to determine what political environment there is an. alexander if i go to you in london i mean it seems to me and i'll be very blunt here this is just kind of a very imperialist think attitude that it knows better for other people i do not

see any scenario right now there is a good outcome for ukraine it over the next few months or next few years i mean the country is going into bankruptcy and who is going to pay for it is of the european union going to pay for it no i doubt it let us look at it go ahead i entirely agree cannot can i just say something which is this mystery and code which we are all agreed was an awful leader he was due to face an election in march two thousand and two two thousand and fifteen which he would surely have lost if he had lost that election if that election it happened in a normal way whoever would have taken over would have taken over in a democratic way with a constitution and a government that works worked what we have now because of the way in which he was overthrown is an art of the chaotic and fragmented situation in which everything is falling apart and that is precisely because of the wholly

illegitimate way in which this was done preempting the result of a democratic election now it was not in the e.u.'s interests it seems to me for that to happen and if we have an economic crisis on our hands which is going to be far worse than it would have been had we had a functioning government in kiev with working within a proper constitutional system ok and we hear you has to pay the bill of that well what is the surprise. it seems to me. and look at remembering because we're new and leaked conversation everything is going to plan because they want the e.u. in washington want to have their people in charge in kiev they don't want to elections there they don't want to democracy there because they won't be able to choose who's in power they're doing it right now as we speak well i would.

play a devil's advocate here for some time. speaking about. i think that here was corrupt and ineffective show that he had been the good thing about him he looked for a compromise. not only is he offered the position the position of their prime minister. he also offered the e.u. several ways out of the crisis before the sun meant he actually didn't cancel this . association agreement with the you he just postponed it and he suggested try later negotiations between the e.u. more school and kiev to run out the differences on the trade courses and the answer from brussels was no we won't have try later negotiations we're only going to talk to you so the e.u. indeed its role in the key of was extremely negative i would like to hear what

armando would respond to me you know when she says that the you got involved too early well i think that the involvement of the year was. wholly negative because even now the things that are coming from the e.u. you know like warnings. are brought you know chairman of the european parliament's committee he came to ukraine today and he said that ukrainians should stop we chant because this may provoke russia's intervention there are no signs of russia's intervention there was not a single statement by the russian leaders that would make it to look for simple there were no intercepted conversations nothing but steel you know the e.u. frightening ukrainians by the scarecrow over russian intervention created this terrible atmosphere or witch hunt so i think the elmar brok is the last man quarter fight to stop the witch hunt because he believed in the wages and how can you stop

that which of the if you will if you believe in that which is ok amended you want to reply to what diem about which is sad to say here first of all of course elmar brok i mean he doesn't represent the e.u. i mean his comments are wholly unhelpful of course but hey it's not and representing the. you he's not a leader of a member state to an e.u. official and i just want to return to the point that was raised earlier about how we should have waited until the president elections next year i mean quite frankly i don't think there's any doubt that these elections were not likely to to have been free and fair i mean the last parliamentary elections and in ukraine and we know that they were far from being free and fair this was widely reported so quite frankly the chances of presidential elections being free and fair was not very likely i mean mr yanukovych which is rule for democracy going downhill very quickly in ukraine when you say where you live in new orleans mission to save democracy and in ukraine can you answer that question why is it your responsibility i mean let's

look at it from the other way it's not the european union there's a demand or here it's the it's the ukraine that is demanded from the european union for many years a closer relationship both politically and economically i mean the european union does not go around looking for countries to save the request came from ukrainian political elites from civil society from france from society as a whole they want to have this engagement with the e.u. and they want to have the relationship but what we have seen and i've learned from president a new crate and his government now one of them and one of the big problems here is that it is a divided country it's a divided country our xandra can you address that here because again you know we we have these differences in eastern west and that's what's happening in kiev right now is giving plenty of people good reason to say hey you want kiev you want my dog you can have it because a lot of people are dissatisfied with the kind of political slogans and ideology that is spewing out from care of right now and they don't want to have anything to

do with it. well exactly because of course from the peep the point of view of the people in the eastern ukraine this is the third time that a government they elected has been overthrown it happened in two thousand and four it happened in two thousand and seven and it's happened again and not only has it happened this time but we're seeing people like mr yarrow should we talked about before and others like him speaking in the most extraordinary way and talking in a most repressive where and not just about russians by the way but about jews the chief rabbi of the ukraine has said the jews are no longer safe there now when that happens both course people in the east and the south of the ukraine who do not share the views of some of the people on my done are concerned and of course that accelerates process of fragmentation in

a situation where the constitution is no longer working which it isn't at the moment you know i think you know amanda speaks about democratic elections not happening in two thousand and fifteen we never got there we never found out up to a few months ago the e.u. was dealing with mr yanik overreach as the democratically elected president of the ukraine they were dealing with the parliament as the democratically elected parliament of the ukraine now we're told that in two thousand and fifteen that might not have been the case and in that as as a result of that we have total chaos in kiev now repression all over the place men with guns and you know i am amazed by this denial that the still is on this question when the facts on the ground speak overwhelmingly for themselves and people in the south and east for the first time seriously. talking about secession

. here in moscow how do you see that the issue of secession because it's you know it's it's always been there there's the there's been people even people in the crimea looking for an opportunity like this because they don't like the rule from care of how is this going to play out because i know a lot of there's a lot of tensions here there's a lot of tempers flaring what's going on in the east and south. i don't believe that ukraine a will split. of course what's going on there is a lot of injustice. you know people in the east and in the south of ukraine they lived under the soviet union they were formed under the soviet union so they have a lot of good things you know that they inherited from the soviet union they also have some bad ones and the bad one is to always look up to the authority to walk up to kiev to fulfill the orders even though these orders are now coming from possibly

the people who are like mr jarosz i think it's a scandal that mr jarosz who holds all been the anti-semitic news is going to become a deputy prime minister of ukraine i think it's a scandal that mr tag me bork is median european leaders that for the first time since i think nine hundred thirty nine we have the situation. i was sorry that i'm on they could not finish i think i can go forward for thinking you know when you say that elections were criticized by the media so that means that the next election is going to be unfair. i don't know that it's very easy to invalidate any election in the world i'm a journalist i walked with a western journalist i know how easily they report about the breaches of electoral processes in other countries not in the rule i mean international organization folks i'm really sorry i wish i really wish we had more time but we've run out of

time many thanks to my guest in brussels london and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our d.c. unix time remember. when you. a. child will rights. take the young girl's cammo for of a future hunger. between two and three hundred million guns the

united states so you can act like they're not here and keep kids away from them. the plaza sound is they long or you know i mean this teaches them a lot of are a responsibility and simply come to play it through the eyes of children if we can do it for our children who for future might hold the country will save. it. looks like to go digital the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy which albums. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several we've been hijacked like handful of transnational

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scuffles breaking out and south ukraine crimea between supporters and opponents of the country's interim leadership as rival crowds besieged the local parliament while in the capital. if you this is just what you really believe resurrection is your addition or do you really started i love the way you go all the nationalists move closer to power seeking key posts in a new government to be approved or rejected by chaotic crowds and public forum i mean battled independence square. yeah and then just leave members of the public speaker rushed through the. foreign vigilantes in armored vehicles patrol the streets of a muslim neighborhood in east london sparking fears of a clash.